Difference between revisions of "Talk:Move Archiveteam to Hackint"

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(Counterpoints to the pro-EFnet arguments)
 
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– [[User:JustAnotherArchivist|JustAnotherArchivist]] ([[User talk:JustAnotherArchivist|talk]]) 13:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
– [[User:JustAnotherArchivist|JustAnotherArchivist]] ([[User talk:JustAnotherArchivist|talk]]) 13:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, if "it's stuck in the early 90s experience of IRC" is a bullet point, why continue to stick with IRC instead of moving to Discord (people will complain because massive data collection, fingerprinting, nonfree), Matrix (?), Telegram groupchats (people will complain because bullshit homegrown broken crypto and unencrypted supergroups), or run your own Mattermost instance?
Why continue to work around an "ancient" protocol with all sorts of cruft bandaged on top of each other instead of something that supports webhooks, threading, images, etc.
[[User:Tl|Tl]] ([[User talk:Tl|talk]]) 06:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:25, 27 August 2020

Counterpoints to the pro-EFnet arguments

I want to elaborate a bit on why the EFnet arguments don't hold.

  • IRC Services: Inherently leads to a certralisation of permissions vs current system. – This is not inherently true any more than it is on EFnet. Anyone with ops can still grant anyone else ops, and those with channel control permissions can also set it up in the services such that the recipient gets autoopped etc.
  • It has Always Been EFNet, we shouldn't uproot our long-standing relationship and work with that network. – AT has been on EFnet for a decade, yeah, but other than that, what 'relationship'? I'm not aware of there having ever been communication with EFnet staff regarding the countless issues we're having and limits we're hitting, for example.
  • EFNet is the longest-lived Network, showing it's here to stay. – I'd rather say that EFnet has been on a decline the past few years at least. Some servers have been taken down forever by the respective operators. Others aren't properly maintained and don't support current technologies (e.g. modern TLS versions, IPv6). The webchat breaks frequently and sometimes isn't fixed for weeks.
  • We should just engage with EFNet to make them more hospitable for Archive Team needs. – Good luck with that. It appears to be essentially impossible to reach any EFnet staff beyond some of the individual server ops (e.g. to report spammers). The forums are pretty much dead (and actually broken at times). Most of the things that are bothering us would need approval and action from all server ops, which will certainly never happen.
    • Topic length limit: an increase was requested on the forums in 2003[IAWcite.todayMemWeb], and it was already bothering people for years at that point. The limits were actually different per server at the time (haven't checked whether they still are). The answers to that request can be summarised as 'just use one of the servers which has a higher limit' (leading to more centralisation and outages, plus people connecting through other servers would only see a truncated topic), 'nobody needs longer topics except for stupid colours and stuff' (seriously?) and 'but if we increase the limit, people will demand even more!' (ridiculous thing to say at the current limit).
    • Nick length limit, channel join limit, etc.: People have been complaining about this on the forums for a long time (at least since 2007, but probably earlier as well). It's obvious that nothing's going to change about this.
    • NickServ, IRCv3, and other useful features will never arrive on EFnet either. It's stuck in the early 90s experience of IRC.

JustAnotherArchivist (talk) 13:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, if "it's stuck in the early 90s experience of IRC" is a bullet point, why continue to stick with IRC instead of moving to Discord (people will complain because massive data collection, fingerprinting, nonfree), Matrix (?), Telegram groupchats (people will complain because bullshit homegrown broken crypto and unencrypted supergroups), or run your own Mattermost instance?

Why continue to work around an "ancient" protocol with all sorts of cruft bandaged on top of each other instead of something that supports webhooks, threading, images, etc.

Tl (talk) 06:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)